Give us your input!

[rck]

The biggest hurdle this series, and maybe every other flat track series, has to deal with is rider count. It is a must to have a consistent rider count at each and every show. If this does not happen we lose the support of the fans, and the promoters. If we do not have the backing of the fans and promoters, before long we will have nowhere to race.

What will it take, better end of the year awards, more races, fewer races, short tracks, half miles, Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas, Nebraska?

I know some of you will post that you want more two-day events, and that is great, but without exception when we have a two-day event we lose fifteen to twenty per cent of our riders for the second day. This is not fair to the fans and promoters who expect the same great show as the previous night.

Let us know what you think,
Randy

[tsmiley98]

Two day events are nice for planning a weekend, but just as we saw in Lincoln, alot of people left the second day, not sure if it was due to running a TT & flattrack one day and another flattrack the next day, the track conditions or what. Cost of paying 2 full price pit passes kinda sucked, maybe have a discounted 2 day pit pass for those who are commited to both days. Also having children pay the full price on the pit pass? (We hear about the youth being the future of the sport, but when kids pay the same full price as adults it makes it difficult for a parent to afford those kids classes too especially if they bring a pile of kids)

Paying full price on every class you enter, we could do as we do in armwrestling, the first class is full price and the other classes you enter are discounted to promote more entries into more classes. (eg: getting 10 people to enter 1 class @ $20 and 5 of them to enter the next class for the same price = 15 entries for $300 but if you offered a second class price of $15 and they all went 1 class for $20 and a second for $15 you get 20 entries for $350, now you have two races with 10 riders instead of (1) 10 rider race and (1) 5 rider race.) <- and this puts on a better show for the fans.

Speaking of better show for the fans, run some of the small classes together. Why have a couple 2 or 3 bike races when you could run them together for a 6 bike show. This could cause issues with people entering multiple classes though. If you enter two classes on two bikes but the races are ran together.

Offer a discount for the first designated # of riders to pre register and pay for an event. Then the people who always show get a break, as well as make incentive for the other riders to commit. I know it worked to get me commited to Stockton.

Having races in different areas is great. There were alot fo riders that showed up at the Lincoln race that dont make it down to KS, and the drive for some of the KS guys was not much further than normal.

The last thing that you could help with is to schedule races not on Drill weekend, I missed 3 weekends of racing and a banquet due to this.. (J/K you guys cant really schedule around every rider)

Thanks for the great job though. See you in Jan?

[rob51g]

TJ has some good ideas here. I do believe the a discounted pit pass for a 2 day pass is a good idea and kids prices should be discounted. As for class entries,I'm not so sure. I know for example the pro classes are payed off entries so that would reduce the payout. It's a tough call as to whether the costs of the 2nd day outweigh the benefits.

[verticaltwin]

Lots of great ideas there... I can only speak for myself, but if money were no object I'd be at all of the races. I feel bad for not showing up Sunday at Lincoln, but there were many reasons I didn't stay. That slick track spooked me a bit, I'm not used to the front tire sliding! I really wanted to stay and race again, but I rough guessed that it would cost a hundred bucks to stay and play, and times are kind of tough for me right now. I feel lucky that the wife lets me go racing at all... so I'm sorry but I just couldn't justify staying. It was just a bad night for me I guess, I felt like I had no business being on that track. I'll continue to make all of the races that I possibly can. I have a blast at the races... and can't wait to get back on the track.

Thanks again to all of you who make the races possible. I know you are doing all you can to keep the cost down and put on a good show too. Thanks again for bump start Tom! That bionic knee of yours works GREAT!

Kyle#44x

[rob51g]

OK,I'm back again. I'm curious,how many riders from Arkansas raced the series? I would like to have several races in Ne but understand that wouldn't be logical. I think you guys need to figure out where your riders come from and try to schedule some in the middle of those. My thoughts would be the Kansas City,Topeka area should be about right. Beloit wasn't to far for most and a fun track. Clay Center,Salina, Minneapolis all seem to me to be central areas as well. Maybe a weekend At Wichita, Pacific Jct. or Fairbury Ne and 1 in the Missouri area to give everyone a race close to home.
Pro riders ride for the money(kinda) so what about raising the entry $5 a class(pro classes only) and put that toward a seasons end fund?It wouldn't be a lot but a little incentive to stay for a 2 day weekend.
That should do it for now but I'm sure I'll be back.lol

[tsmiley98]

Rob, there were ALOT of riders from SD (4.5-5.5 hours), Northeast IA (4.5-5.5 hours) and southern MN (6.5-7.5 hours) and I think some even from western IL/eastern IA (5-5.5 hours)that made it down to race in NE. Thats a pretty good drive for them to make it to the KS races figure another 4 hours for them. (figure an extra 2 to the original time if we are going to the KC area) Which makes having races in NE logical.

Heck thats the shortest drive I have made all year to race being about 1.5 hours from Josh's

Maybe some of the crew can toss numbers out for each race as to how many riders/entries made each race. Stockton being the obvious winner for numbers attending. Then Oberlin (as alot of people were already on the way to Stockton) The Jeeps races, Clay Center, Great Bend and Little Rock I am guessing had all about the same turn out. How did they compare to the turn out in Lincoln? After all thats all it comes down to is numbers.

I am sure NE races draw less AR racers than a KS race, however the KS races do not seem to draw MN, SD, eastern IA/western IL.

Here is a picture show the same area centered on both Wichita and Lincoln almost a 5 - 6 hour radius in drive time



So you can see that Bill is not affected by having to drive more or less, so moving locations will not get rid of him.

Seriously though the people around Topeka, KC, Manhatten, across the center of KS all have about the same drive time to either location. If you think about it, racing around the KC area looks to be the most centralized location to draw the most people.

So again back to the numbers, which locations/events draw the biggests crowd? Having race locations added definatly will not hurt attendance as each location draws a different crowd. Simple math is crowd = money, money = races.

I have no problem driving to the races we had this year, except AR would be too long a drive for me.

In the end I want to race, so I will go where they are withen reason. I'm just fishing for more information.

[rob51g]

TJ,my ideas were to help the GPFTS become a better series not about making my drive shorter. If you look at most of the guys from the areas you mentioned,they are modern pros that came for the big purses.If you remove those 2 classes and the Quads,there wasn't many riders there. Let's also remember that Lincoln was an indoor at the time of year when all the local series are done. Mn has a good series,SD has a series in Sioux Falls(Been there) and Eastern Ia has a lot of races during our series. I think we need to look at locations where we can draw riders from. I think they are looking for ideas that help the series not just 1 race.

[tsmiley98]

Nov 23, 2009 22:00:15 GMT -5 rob51g said:

TJ,my ideas were to help the GPFTS become a better series not about making my drive shorter. If you look at most of the guys from the areas you mentioned,they are modern pros that came for the big purses.If you remove those 2 classes and the Quads,there wasn't many riders there. Let's also remember that Lincoln was an indoor at the time of year when all the local series are done. Mn has a good series,SD has a series in Sioux Falls(Been there) and Eastern Ia has a lot of races during our series. I think we need to look at locations where we can draw riders from. I think they are looking for ideas that help the series not just 1 race.

Maybe you missed the part where I said "In the end I want to race, so I will go where they are withen reason" They meaning the races GPFTS puts on and withen reason is 6 hours or less (I cant be more than 6 hours from home due to military obligations without prior written conscent)

There was talk about putting on more races next year, 4 to be exact (thats 3 more than 1, and 4 more than one if you count the proposed indoor race in JAN) so not just running the small indoor track, NE raceway park has a very nice 1/2 mile track.

Your ideas seem to be the same ideas I have mentioned, finding what centralized locations that draw the riders...

You make it sound as if my only intention is to have a shorter drive. It would be nice, but again re-read the previous post, driving is not the problem.

What could be problems are...
- showing up to have 3 or 4 bikes in your class (you can tell me you had fun racing 1 or 2 guys around the track?)
- showing up for a single race after driving 5-6 hours. (a good reason to run a 2 day event at the same track or 2 races at different track close to each other)
- realizing the track sucks so bad you dont want to race the next day.. (ehh, it happens and racing is funner than not racing)

Heck, I have alot of my own money invested in this, and surely didn't drive half way to Michigan for a new bike to not race it.

This is good though Rob, now if we can get more people to chime in with ideas we can get some good feedback for the crew to work with...

[rob51g]

I agree,this is good and we now need others to give their opinions.

[tudorpilot]

I just have time for a quick idea right now.....

My #1 suggestion is to build a strong series based at JEEPS.
I don't mind the drive. I love the $8 per person through the gate. The atmosphere is perfect. You gain regular spectators by having regular races there. Personify the racers...more on that later....to give the crowd racers to cheer for.

More later...

Josh Trail

[teamkurtz]

I agree there is some very good ideas. I like the idea of combining the classes to make it more exciting for the racers and fans. Second you guys do a great job with the awards, so please do not spend more money in that dept. Two Day races, I know that you lose a certain amount of riders the second day. However you have less money and time involved in the track prep, GP crew and racers has less gas money and travel time involved and most tracks allow free camping. Last thing, I like Josh's jeep series idea since we just moved to Wichita.
Randy, I have reviewed your proposal for major sponsors. We are finally getting moved this week , so as soon as we are settled I will touch base with you on it. Everyone needs to get involved in this conversation, if you been involved a year or twenty years!
Mike

[verticaltwin]

I was thinking about this stuff over the weekend... in between getting called in to work

**I like the Jeeps series idea as well, although we may not get some of the racers that came to the Lincoln indoor (due to travel distance).

**I know some folks have had trouble finding our calendar and schedule on the website. Maybe a layout change could make it easier? I don't know what all this entails... just throwing an idea out there.

Thanks again for all of the hard work you guys put in behind the scenes to get these races going for us!

[tudorpilot]

I think if we had a special series, people would make a habit of making it. For example, every 2nd weekend from may through august. That's just an idea for the JEEPS series. Everybody can run with it a thousand ways. The idaea is that people (spectators and racers) will make a habit of it if it happens regularly.

Ideas come easily,,,,good ones, however, are rare...

I would love to have the races closer and cheaper. Unfortunately, that would make it further and more expensive for others. Any plan that saves racers money, costs promoters and sponsors more. That's great if you have sponsors running wild, but that's not the case here.

I would like to suggest making a program/yearbook. This would take sponsorship ads to make work, consider me in for starters. This would help to personify us racers with the spectators. If they have someone they like to cheer for, they'll talk about it more, and they won't miss a race. Just an idea for now.

Josh Trail

[rob51g]

OK,I tried to bite my lip on this but it's starting to hurt. Are we really serious about the Wichita series idea? I'm pretty sure that that same idea had a lot to do with the NFTRA dying. I know Roger was the main reason but the schedule of 80% Wichita races was also to blame. I love short tracks but I think more people like big tracks. So far I see mostly smaller bike riders commenting here. Can we hear from some vintage 600 or twins riders or some modern pros?

[tudorpilot]

Even though I only ride one (make that two((three classes each race))) of those "smaller bikes", I'd like to continue to contribute to this topic.

To review: I was suggesting a regular JEEPS series once a month for 5 months (that's 5 races, a series within a series) . NFTRA tried doing it weekly. The demise of the NFTRA would take its own seperate message board to iron out...

I still want to have all the races in the other places too.

The biggest thing we're looking for is consistent rider count. Fans and sponsors will follow. We have to have a strong place to start from to build a strong overall series. For more ideas on a strong place to start from, refer to my previous posts.

That's it for now... I'll sit back and listen to all the "pros", and, "big bike" riders now.

Josh "little bike lefty" Trail